J.K. Cement 2027 財年第二季法說會：銷量成長、燃料成本與 2,300 萬噸以上指引

J.K. Cement Limited 公布截至 2026 年 9 月 30 日止單季與上半財年營收在出貨量帶動下強勁成長，但同時警告，煤炭與石油焦價格上漲將使下半財年成本承壓。

重點摘要

• 合併單季淨銷售額年增 21% 至 3,561 crore 印度盧比，但季減 9%。上半財年淨銷售額年增 21% 至 7,457 crore 印度盧比。
• 上半財年灰水泥出貨量成長 19.38% 至 1,130 萬公噸。管理層維持全年超過 2,300 萬公噸的指引，但未承諾達到 2,400 萬公噸。
• 單季個體 EBITDA 為 500 crore 印度盧比，去年同期為 440 crore 印度盧比，上一季度為 639 crore 印度盧比。上半財年 EBITDA 年增 2% 至 1,138 crore 印度盧比。
• 燃料成本預計將從每大卡約 1.71 印度盧比上升至接近或高於 2 印度盧比，其中第 3 季受到部分影響，第 4 季則反映完全影響。
• 淨負債為 4,571 crore 印度盧比。管理層預計在執行 2030 財年達到 5,000 萬公噸產能計畫的過程中，淨負債可能在 6,000 crore 印度盧比附近見頂。
• 塗料業務單季營收為 115 crore 印度盧比，EBITDA 虧損 2 crore 印度盧比。管理層預計全財年 EBITDA 將轉正。

核心財務數據

業務與營運表現

營收成長主要受惠於上一財年在印度中部完成 600 萬公噸擴產後灰水泥出貨量增加。管理層表示，J.K. Cement 在印度中部的市占率提升，同時維持了北部市場的市占率。

公司重申經銷管道銷售與高階產品的成長有助於支撐獲利能力。管理層指出，高階產品平均每公噸可創造約 150 印度盧比的額外利潤。隨著預計的擴產計畫推進，行銷支出也相應增加。

產能為 60 萬公噸的 Nathdwara 牆面批土廠已於期內投產。目前白水泥與批土的總產能達 365 萬公噸，其中印度為 305 萬公噸，阿拉伯聯合大公國為 60 萬公噸。

塗料單季營收達 115 crore 印度盧比，上半財年約為 250 crore 印度盧比。董事會批准興建一座預估成本為 130 crore 印度盧比、容量 75,000 公秉的新塗料廠，該預算在先前核准的 600 crore 印度盧比塗料業務投資額度內。

預拌混凝土 (RMC) 與建築化學品單季貢獻約 60 crore 印度盧比營收。RMC 業務目前擁有 23 座營運中工廠，目標是到 2027 年 3 月達到 50 座工廠。管理層表示該業務仍處於發展階段，尚未產生 EBITDA。

管理層指引

管理層維持全年灰水泥出貨量超過 2,300 萬公噸的指引。管理層表示，若營運環境持續有利，出貨量可能接近 2,400 萬公噸，但明確拒絕承諾達到該水準。

從 9 月中旬至 10 月，水泥價格每包平均上漲約 20 印度盧比。管理層表示，為抵銷燃料、包裝及其他成本壓力，每包需要進一步調漲 10 至 15 印度盧比，並可能在排燈節 (Diwali) 後調漲。

燃料成本預計將在第 3 季與第 4 季雙雙上升。現有庫存應能部分緩衝第 3 季的影響，而第 4 季預計將完全反映印度煤炭與石油焦價格上漲的衝擊。本季燃料組合為 55% 印度煤炭、13% 替代燃料，其餘主要為石油焦。

公司預計 Jaisalmer 綜合廠與 Bikaner 磨粉設施將於 2028 財年上半財年投產。在取得正式批准與專案執行順利的前提下，Bhatinda 目標於 2027 年 9 月投產。

管理層預估 2027 財年資本支出約為 3,500 crore 印度盧比，隨後擴建計畫 (brownfield expansion) 的年支出約為 2,500 crore 印度盧比。Muddapur 與 Panna 的計畫新增產能總計約 1,100 萬公噸，各據點約分攤 500 萬至 600 萬公噸。

淨負債 EBITDA 比可能在 2027 財年左右見頂，約落在 2.25 倍至 2.35 倍。管理層預計在擴建產能開始貢獻獲利後，槓桿率將回落至 1.5 倍以下，時間可能落在接下來的兩到三年內。

塗料業務方面，管理層維持全年營收指引，並預計本財年 EBITDA 將轉正。目標是在 2028 財年前後實現約 3% 至 5% 的 EBITDA 獲利率，並預期隨著規模與市場涵蓋率提升，每年獲利能力將改善 2 至 3 個百分點。

風險與關注焦點

• 印度煤炭與石油焦價格上漲預計將大幅增加第 3 季與第 4 季的燃料成本。
• 印度盧比走弱可能會增加進口燃料及其他進料成本的壓力。
• 排燈節相關的勞工流動、德里施工限制以及北方邦可能的選舉干擾，可能會影響下半財年的出貨量。
• 管理層指出馬哈拉施特拉邦和卡納塔克邦可能因乾旱導致需求疲軟，不過南部廠房僅占總出貨量的 15% 左右。
• 富查伊拉 (Fujairah) 的營運無法將水泥或熟料出口至海合會 (GCC) 市場以外的地區，限制了公司彌補其他出口目的地出貨量缺口的能力。
• 白水泥價格調漲可能遭遇困難，因為管理層觀察到客戶對超出目前價格水準的調漲有抗拒心態。

法人說明會 Q&A 精華

管理層表示，相較於同業較低的燃料成本，反映了在 Panna 第 2 條生產線投產後印度煤炭占比提高，以及消耗了較低成本的庫存。石油焦目前約占燃料組合的 30% 至 35%。

談及相較於同業的獲利能力，管理層預計 J.K. Cement 在每公噸 EBITDA 方面將保持在前三或前四名生產商之列。管理層亦預計 Jaisalmer 的擴產將改善對目前供應受限市場的進入能力，從而支撐而非稀釋獲利能力。

管理層表示塗料擴產是有必要的，因為隨著營收接近指引水準，預計現有產能將滿載。在核准的擴展計畫完成後，該業務未來的投資預計將由塗料部門自身的現金流提供資金。

Mahan 煤炭區塊已獲得批准並已開工。管理層目標於 2029 財年上半財年投產。West of Shahdol 區塊的確切時程預計在進一步規劃後確定。

完整法人說明會逐字稿

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完整財報電話會議逐字稿

管理層陳述

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the earnings call of J.K. Cement Limited for quarter and half year ended 30th September 2026, hosted by PhillipCapital India Private Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode, and there will be an option for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. [Operator Instructions]. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Vaibhav Agarwal from PhillipCapital. Thank you and over to you, sir.

分析師問答

Vaibhav Agarwal

Thank you, Nirav. Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of PhillipCapital India Private Limited, we welcome you to the Q2 and H1 FY 2026 call of J.K. Cement Limited. On the call we have with us Mr. Ajay Kumar Saraogi, Deputy Managing Director and Chief Financial Officer, and Mr. Prashant Seth, President, Business Information and Investor Relations at J.K. Cement. I would like to mention on behalf of J.K. Cement and its management that certain statements that we made or discuss on today's conference call may be forward-looking statements related to future developments and statements which are based on current management expectations.

These statements are subject to a number of risks, uncertainties, and other important factors which may cause actual developments and results to differ materially from the statements made. J.K. Cement Limited and the management of the company assumes no obligation to publicly update or alter these forward-looking statements based on new information or future events or otherwise. I will now hand over the floor to the management of J.K. Cement for the opening remarks, which will be followed by interactive Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Ajay Saraogi

Thank you, Vaibhav. Good afternoon and welcome to Q2 and six months ended 30th September call. The board of directors met on 24th of October to review the company's performance for the quarter ended 30th September, as well as the half year ended 30th September. The major highlights, the net sale during this quarter increased by 21% year-on-year to INR 3,561 crores as compared to INR 2,932 crores. However, as compared to previous quarter, it was down by 9%. Half year, it was higher by 21% at INR 7,457 crores as compared to INR 6,167 crores. The increase in net sale is primarily because of increase in the grey cement volumes. For the half year, the grey cement volumes have increased by 19.38% at 11.3 million tonnes as compared to 9.49 million tonnes.

Also, the white cement, volume has increased by 19% at 10.32 lakh tonnes in the 6-month period as compared to 8.62 lakh tonnes in the previous year. The EBITDA standalone. Sorry, I read the consolidated numbers last time. I would repeat again, the standalone financial results quarter-on-quarter had actually increased by 28% at INR 3,516 crores as compared to INR 2,754 crores. For the half year period, it is higher by 25% at INR 7,301 crores as compared to INR 5,823 crores. The EBITDA during this quarter was INR 500 crores as compared to INR 440 crores in the previous year and INR 639 in the previous quarter. For the 6-month period, it is higher by 2% at INR 1,138 crores as compared to INR 1,113 crores. The board, while reviewing this, also noted that during this period, we have commissioned the wall putty plant at Nathdwara of 0.6 million tonnes.

That increases our total white cement capacity to 3.65 million tonnes. They reviewed the working of the projects basically at Jaisalmer. At the integrated site, the work is in advanced stage and it is on schedule and we are confident to commission the plant in first half of FY '28. Similarly, at the grinding stations at Bikaner, the work is also progressing and we are confident of commissioning in the first half of FY '28. At Bhatinda, we have received the approvals and the work should shortly start and there also, I think within September as of -- we are targeting within September 2027, we should commission the plant.

The board also noted and approved the JK Maxx proposal, which was to put up a white cement -- paint plant of 75,000 KL and with an overall cost of INR 130 crores, which is within the overall limit sanctioned for the paint business of INR 600 crores. With this investment, we would be just making the overall investment in the paint business.

As the working with the paint business is already on course of breakeven in this fiscal, we do not see that going forward there will be any further requirement for any investment in the paint business. With this just understand the future investment can be made by the paint business on their own. As regards the balance sheet, the gross debt position as on September 30 is INR 6,255 crores as compared to INR 5,136 crores. The cash available as on September 30 is INR 1,684 crores as compared to INR 1,765 crores. The net debt is INR 4,571 crores as compared to INR 3,370 crores. The net debt to equity is 0.63 and net debt to EBITDA is 1.95. These are the major highlights. If you have any questions, I will now take up the questions and answers. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. [Operator Instructions]. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. [Operator Instructions]. First question is from the line of Navin Sahadeo from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.

Navin Sahadeo

Yeah, good afternoon, sir. Am I audible?

Ajay Saraogi

Yeah.

Navin Sahadeo

Yeah. Okay, great. Thank you for the opportunity and also congratulations on good set of numbers. My first question was on the volume front. With first half volumes growing 19%, how should one look at volume growth in the second half, given that Karnataka and Maharashtra are probably facing some water shortage related issues. How much is the exposure there? Are you seeing any impact of that? Also in U.P., that state going in for elections, so how should one look at the volume growth in the second half, please?

Ajay Saraogi

Navin, if we look at first on Maharashtra and Karnataka, though we are already mostly sold out in the region. Yes, we do not foresee that any significant impact would be there and whatever is about, we are hopeful that we will achieve our annual target numbers in those regions. As far as your question on U.P. is concerned, yes, it is going on for elections, but I do not think so election will be held before March. If it is so, there could be some disruption. But still we are confident that the guidance which we gave at the beginning of the year of closing at 23 million tonnes, we are on track -- well on track on that number.

Navin Sahadeo

No, that is not the case. I am actually expecting 24 million tonnes. So that is what it looks like at least from the first half performance.

Ajay Saraogi

Yeah. See, again, I am saying that the guidance given at 23 million tonnes, it would be 23 million tonnes plus. So if we get 24, it will be better. But as of now, because next month is a festival month, Diwali. So there will be lot of --- some volumes will get affected in terms of Diwali. There is already some construction [act] imposition at New Delhi because of pollution and other things. So we have to factor all those uncertainties, as you mentioned about drought and other things. So if they are bearing that means if nothing happens, we will definitely be closer to the 24 or something. But as we gave a guidance 23 million, we are confident we will be there.

Navin Sahadeo

Thank you. Sir, my second question then was on the cost. So your cost per kcal was about INR 1.71 in Q2. So if you could just help us understand that at the current spot rates wherein pet coke has surged past $185 or between $185-$190 and also the domestic coal premium has surged or almost doubled. At the current spot rates, what will be the cost per kcal and will it be felt in Q3 or only in Q4 or beyond? How should we interpret that? Thank you.

Ajay Saraogi

So there will be impact both in Q3 as well as Q4. So partially, we will get some benefit of the inventory in Q3, but the entire impact would be felt in Q4. So I think the total impact from INR 1.71 as a cost, which was there on exit of -- how the things look, and if they continue like that, the cost may go up to close to INR 2. So with that INR 2, we may say about [half] should come in, which is an impact of INR 80, INR 90 coming in this quarter and maybe similar amount in the subsequent, in the next quarter.

Operator

Thank you. Navin, do you have any follow-up questions?

Navin Sahadeo

No, no. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you very much. Next question is from the line of Sanjeev Singh from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead.

Unknown Analyst

Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity, sir. My first question is on the demand when you said about drought and [rail] deficiency. So in your experience over the last 10-15 years, whenever this kind of a situation has happened, what has been the impact on demand in your view?

Ajay Saraogi

See, it was a very difficult. It was a point raised by Navin. We really are not factoring the drought impact. In any case, the drought impact regions, our total share is quite nominal. If you look at out of the total share of our volume, it combines about 15% of our volumes coming in from the south plant of the total volumes. It is not very substantial. I would say that if we see the impact, impact would not be anything significant. It could be a marginal impact.

Unknown Analyst

Okay. Secondly, in the presentation, you have given the guideline for achieving 50 million tonnes capacity by FY '30. Considering the growth plans, how do you expect the balance sheet in terms of net debt and net debt to EBITDA to be at the peak level? Where could you be comfortable, and you think that in the current given kind of a profitability, you should hold on to your plans for this kind of a growth?

Ajay Saraogi

As we said, you can talk about gross debt or net debt to EBITDA may reach say about 2.3, 2.35, or between 2.25 to 2.35. That is the peak, which will be mostly at end of fiscal '27. Thereafter, we would see, because this is a greenfield project having a big investment. The other expansion for the 50 million journey is all brownfield expansions, where the cost will be lower, and then we would -- as the overall capacity is increasing, we are expecting better profitability. It is maybe from FY '29 onwards, we again come back to -- our specific target is that once we complete this, we should be well within 1.5. But it will take two or three years when we start reaping the profits of the expansion.

Unknown Analyst

Sir, my last question would be on CapEx. What should be the CapEx we should assume over the next three years between FY '28 to '30? I think FY '27, you earlier had said INR 35 billion.

Ajay Saraogi

Yes. As we continue with the expansion, CapEx would be in the range of INR 2,500 crores yearly in the coming years.

Unknown Analyst

Okay, sir.

Ajay Saraogi

What he is saying is we are doing INR 3,500 crores in this fiscal, and then subsequently as a brownfield expansion, every year it will be in the vicinity of INR 2,500 crores to meet out the targets.

Unknown Analyst

Okay, sir. Thanks a lot.

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from line of Gaurav Nagori from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead.

Gaurav Nagori

Yes, thanks for the opportunity. Sir, I want to understand more on your profitability. If I look at your first half EBITDA.

Operator

Gaurav, sorry to interrupt. Can you speak through the handset, please?

Gaurav Nagori

Is it better?

Operator

Rightly. Go ahead.

Gaurav Nagori

Yeah. I wanted to understand more on the profitability front. First half, EBITDA per ton is above INR 900 per ton, last year it was INR 1,000. But what I am trying to understand is that if I exclude the incentive per ton for you, which is typically around INR 120 to INR 150 per ton, given that Fujairah EBITDA margins have also gone up for the year, so I am assuming that would have gone up for you also. If I exclude the white cement 150 margins in the domestic market, is it fair to say that excluding incentives, excluding this domestic and the global white cement, 150 volumes for EBITDA per ton in grey cement would be around INR 500 per ton? Is that understanding correct in first half?

Ajay Saraogi

I do not know from where you got these numbers. The 500, one, on the subsidy, our cost is not INR 120, INR 150. Our subsidy is only about INR 80 a ton.

Gaurav Nagori

Okay.

Ajay Saraogi

Then what we are talking about, we are dividing it by volume numbers, and I do not know on what basis. I think whatever numbers per ton we are seeing, it is a consolidated. If you see the EBITDA margins are same for the grey and the white business, more or less same as a company.

Gaurav Nagori

Okay.

Ajay Saraogi

I do not know, when the INR 500. We have never had INR 500 a ton grey cement for EBITDA. We never had that.

Gaurav Nagori

Okay. I understand that, sir. What I am trying to understand is that because first half, when you have the [blended] number of INR 900, we are saying that the margins in white cement [indiscernible] 50 and grey cement are same.

Ajay Saraogi

I am sorry, I will not be able to share business-wise profit numbers. But if you have been seeing…

Gaurav Nagori

Understood.

Ajay Saraogi

If you see INR 500 a ton, if you are imagining, then if you say that 50% of the profit is from the white business, it is your judgment. I will not like to comment on that.

Gaurav Nagori

Understood. How much margin increase that you would have seen, let's say, in the better volumes in this year compared to last year, if you would be…

Ajay Saraogi

The margin increase, it is reflected in the EBITDA. The EBITDA, there is [indiscernible] because the costs have increased more than the realization.

Gaurav Nagori

Okay.

Ajay Saraogi

That is a direct impact on the EBITDA and the margin. That is why the EBITDA is lower, because the margins are lower.

Gaurav Nagori

Okay.

Ajay Saraogi

EBITDA is not lower only, say, on account of any fixed cost or anything.

Gaurav Nagori

Okay.

Ajay Saraogi

Because the margins are lower, because the costs have increased, and we have not been able to pass on the costs to that extent.

Gaurav Nagori

Understood. Got it, sir. That is it from myself. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions]. Next question is from the line of Philip Mathai from Geojit Investments. Please go ahead.

Unknown Analyst

Thank you, sir, for taking my question. First of all, congratulations on a great set of numbers. I just want to know with regard to the paint business, what was the revenue this quarter? Earlier, you had given a guidance that FY '27, the revenue from paint business would be somewhere around INR 500 crores to INR 550 crores, and '28 will be plus 150 on the '27 base. Has the guidance changed or just want to know regarding that. That is my first question.

Ajay Saraogi

Yeah, paint revenue in this quarter is INR 115 crore. We maintain our guidance for the year as a whole because we have already reached a level of around INR 250 crore in the first half.

Unknown Analyst

Sir, my second question is with regard to the expansion post '28, where you have given 11 MTPA, brownfield in Muddapur and Panna. What is the breakup like? How much capacity are you going to add in Panna and how much are you going to add in Muddapur?

Ajay Saraogi

It is around 5 million-6 million tonnes at each location.

Unknown Analyst

Thank you, sir. That is it from my side.

Ajay Saraogi

Okay.

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Pathanjali Srinivasan from Sundaram Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.

Pathanjali Srinivasan

Hello.

Ajay Saraogi

Yeah, hello.

Pathanjali Srinivasan

Yes, sir. Sir, congrats on good set of numbers. I have a couple of questions. First is your execution this half has been very good. A lot of peers are actually reporting much smaller volume growth numbers. Is it fair to assume that we would have gained a decent amount of market share this quarter?

Ajay Saraogi

No. See, basically, what you see the volume numbers is basically we have completed an expansion in central India. The results of the expansion are quite evident. In last fiscal, we completed a 6 million ton expansion. The expansion volumes are there, and yes, we have in the other markets also, but it is not to that extent. The measured volumes are from Central India. Actually, overall growth of the north market has been good in this quarter. Normally, these players of the north have reportedly higher growth numbers, and east was slightly depressed market. This is because of the regional imbalance also.

Pathanjali Srinivasan

But is it fair to assume that we have gained market share or that's …

Ajay Saraogi

No, north we are at par with the market. Since we do not have extra volume in the north, so we have maintained our market share in the north, and we have definitely gained market share in the central India, in the markets of central.

Pathanjali Srinivasan

Got it. Second thing, one of the data points which you gave is your trade share and share of premium. I see very healthy growth in trade share and share of premium is also picking up over the last, I would say, seven or eight quarters. How does this improve our profitability? Also, if you can explain, where are we making more inroads? Is it more new micro markets where we are able to do this better, or is it newer market that we are entering? Where are we benefiting from?

Ajay Saraogi

This is actually across premium products. We are trying to increase the premium share across all markets. Again, while working on premium products, it is again related to trade basically. When you push more premium, you maintain our -- you try to get more insights into the trade market. Yes, definitely trade market helps us to have a better profitability.

We continue to work towards that. You see, we are making a lot of, as you see, as a part of our expenses, we are doing a lot of investment into the marketing, looking to our future expansion. That is one of the reasons that we are able to capture the market, sell our expansion volumes at a much faster pace. As a part of expansion, we continue to work in the market so that whenever we come with expansion, as now we are coming up with a big expansion in the north. In the next fiscal, we have to see that we get a good market share in the north also.

Pathanjali Srinivasan

Got it, sir. Just one last question related to this, sir. When you mentioned that the profitability is higher in a premium product, I just want a general range. What would be the additional percentage of margin that you will make on a premium product?

Ajay Saraogi

Yeah. Premium products, normally you get between about INR 150 average extra profit. But there is a segment taking premium products. If you don't produce and sell, the premium segment is also in …

Operator

Sorry to interrupt you. Sir, we lost your audio in between. Can you repeat the last few sentences once again, please?

Ajay Saraogi

What I said that the premium market demand is also increasing, so you have to keep the pace, otherwise, this will result in losing the market share for trade.

Pathanjali Srinivasan

Got it, sir. Thank you, sir. Very detailed and very great set of numbers. Thanks. Thank you very much.

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Prateek Kumar from Jefferies India. Please go ahead.

Prateek Kumar

Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. I have one question on your unit EBITDA performance. It has been trailing some of the larger peer's performance for past few quarters. It used to be in line or higher at times in the past. Also, with commissioning of Jaisalmer now next 12 months, how do you see profitability compared to your peers? Have you kind of settled with a lower EBITDA per ton versus peers, or how should we think about your EBITDA per ton performance, particularly versus peers?

Ajay Saraogi

No, see, with other peers, I think, if you compare, we will continue to be amongst the top three, four in terms of EBITDA per ton. Which if you see even as of now, whatever results have come in, we are there. Despite the fact that we had some higher costs in the first half, if you look at the six months working. More or less, we are there, and we are confident that we will be able to maintain our profitability. Even I think Jaisalmer is going to help maintaining that profitability. It should not result in any dilution of profit.

Prateek Kumar

Oh, okay. Jaisalmer is expected to help. It will be similar because location-wise it is like off.

Ajay Saraogi

Yeah, because today, because there is no capacity, we are not able to service certain segments and certain markets because we have a limitation of supply.

Prateek Kumar

Okay. Other question, can you further explain your justification for entry into paint segment, which is already oversupplied? Does this significantly help you cross-sell putty, and as a result, you are wanting that expansion instead of just wanting to set up that as an independent unit?

Ajay Saraogi

No. See, one is that we are already going to touch INR 500 crores in this fiscal. The existing plant will get fully utilized when we achieve this number or maybe going forward in the subsequent year. So we have to plan out to have a new capacity by the time this plant gets fully utilized. So this plant itself will take certain time. By the time we commission this new plant, the existing plant would have been fully used. So we need to have a source of supply, otherwise, whatever efforts have been done to build up this segment and along with putty, and we are meeting out the customer's demand. So that will -- we will take a back foot.

It was necessary to ensure that we are able to continuously supply the increased demand, because next year also, FY '28, we don't have exact, but I think we will definitely be growing another INR 150 crores minimum, if not more. So we are working out on those details. With that, how will we meet out that demand?

Prateek Kumar

Sure. But how should we understand from business IRR return perspective? I know cement operates independently, but does this business operate on, as I was asking earlier, on an independent basis from IRR perspective?

Ajay Saraogi

Independent as we have said that, from the paint business this year, we should -- IRR takes some time, but we should have a positive EBITDA this fiscal. And going forward also, gradually as we increase our market shares and we increase our reach in the market, definitely we would see EBITDA from the business. So this year it should be an EBITDA positive next year. 3%-5%.

Operator

Sorry to interrupt, we again lost your audio in between.

Ajay Saraogi

What I said is that this year in paint business, we should end up with a positive EBITDA. Going forward, as we grow the paint business and along with putty, we would see in the paint segment itself, profitability increasing year on year. It will not be very sharp increase, but yes, definitely 2% to 3% increase in profitability year on year.

Prateek Kumar

Sure. These are my questions and thank you.

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from Amit Murarka from Axis Capital. His line had dropped, has reconnected. Please go ahead with your question.

Amit Murarka

Yeah. Hi, thank you. Firstly on the kcal itself. Fuel cost kcal at, I think INR 1.75 this quarter is 15%-20% lower than what other companies have reported. I just wanted to understand what is driving this lower fuel cost? Is it like high domestic coal? If you could just tell me a bit more on that.

Ajay Saraogi

Yeah. See, Amit, it is because of the change in the blend also. One is the automatic change with the start of Panna Line 2, where we are actually using Indian coal. Practically, we have reduced our pet coke consumption to 30% to 35% only now, and the Indian coal is 55%. Fortunately, we were having some stocks of the old rate and even now the Indian coal rates are going up, but our consumption in this quarter is at a quite low rate. That has resulted into the lower overall per kcal cost. In the next quarter with the rising Indian coal prices and the pet coke prices, we will definitely be above INR 2.

Amit Murarka

In Q3 or by Q4 as in INR 2?

Ajay Saraogi

As we said, both in Q3 and Q4. Partial impact would be there in Q3 and Q4 will have the full impact.

Amit Murarka

My second question is on the plant utilization. The PPT says that the clinker utilization was 95%, whereas cement I think was 67% or 70% something that is mentioned there. Will all of this clinker inventory be consumed in the third quarter itself, or there will be further carryover to Q4…

Ajay Saraogi

Actually, clinker inventory has depleted in the previous quarter because we took maintenance of most of our kilns. One is that we have reached to the normal clinker inventory, plus there is some surplus clinker because normally because of the seasonal impact, the volumes are down in this quarter.

Amit Murarka

Right. My question is that there is decent amount of clinker inventory as we can see from the inventory movement line item also. Will all of these get consumed, the excess inventory?

Ajay Saraogi

Not all of this because as I said that last quarter clinker inventory was lower than the normal. One is the normal level of the clinker inventory which will continue from Q3 onwards.

Amit Murarka

Okay, understood. Just a last question on the revenue. If you would break up between grey revenue, white revenue and the paints revenue is mentioned as INR 116 [crores]. But if you add all that up, there is still a gap of 60 odd crores which comes in …

Ajay Saraogi

That is actually RMC and the CC revenue.

Amit Murarka

RMC and what revenue, sorry? construction chemicals…

Ajay Saraogi

RMC. Mainly the RMC because we started from the previous quarter only, and that INR 60 crore number is the RMC and the construction chemicals.

Amit Murarka

Okay. But looks like it scaled up mostly in this quarter because earlier the gap was not there so much in Q1.

Ajay Saraogi

In Q1 it was INR 50 crores.

Amit Murarka

Okay. Q1 is INR 50 crores and this quarter you are saying is INR 60 crores for these two businesses. Would there be any EBITDA being made on these two businesses?

Ajay Saraogi

RMC is at a developing stage. If you look at, there is no EBITDA at this stage because each RMC plant today, as of now, we have 23 plants in operation. We target to be, by March '27, 50 plants. Each plant takes about six months to get a break even. Initially, you set up a plant. Since it is on a tolling model, we have to assure a fixed cost to the tolling [indiscernible] irrespective. So, by the time the break-even volume starts coming, it takes three to four months' time to get the break-even volume.

Operator

Thank you. Amit, I request you to come back for a follow-up question. [Operator Instructions]. Next question is from the line of Sarthak Tita from DSP Asset Managers. Please go ahead.

Unknown Analyst

Yeah. Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity. My own analysis was asked earlier. I just wanted some color from you, sir, on the pricing part in current spot prices versus the average of Q2. If you get some color in our core regions, that would be very helpful. Yeah.

Ajay Saraogi

So actually, we started seeing some price increase in latter part of September, which we could not-- very marginal realization has been there in Q2. But yes, in Q3, beginning in the month of October, if we say from mid-September, there has been an overall increase in price of around INR 20 for [bag], both trade, non-trade combined. So that is the increase across, if it's the average for us.

Unknown Analyst

Got it, sir. So fair to assume that this would be reflecting on the Q3 part if at all these are sustained.

Ajay Saraogi

Yeah, if they sustain, definitely it will be [indiscernible] out of the cost increase and everything which has been there.

Unknown Analyst

Fair enough. Got it. This was very helpful. Thank you. Thank you very much, and all the best.

Operator

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.

Shravan Shah

Hi, sir. Congratulations on good set of numbers. A couple of questions, sir. Just on the paint, to get a data point. So in Q2, what was the EBITDA?

Ajay Saraogi

Q2 was a loss of INR 2 crore.

Shravan Shah

INR 2 crore. For full year, we are looking at some positive…

Ajay Saraogi

Yeah, positive EBITDA.

Shravan Shah

For FY '28, will it be a 5%, 6% EBITDA margin is doable or given INR 650 crore-INR 700 crore revenue we will be doing?

Ajay Saraogi

INR 700 crore is initially we say yes, we will be targeting 5%, but I am definitely 3%-5% should be the EBITDA.

Shravan Shah

Okay. For RMC this quarter, INR 60 crore. We were looking at kind of a INR 100 crore revenue from the Q4. That should be kind of achievable.

Ajay Saraogi

Yeah, higher in RMC in this quarter and then Q4 definitely meets INR 100 crore.

Shravan Shah

Okay. Got it. Incentive for this quarter was how much, sir?

Ajay Saraogi

Incentive, we just had.

Shravan Shah

Yes, sir.

Ajay Saraogi

…INR 45 crores is for the quarter.

Shravan Shah

Okay, INR 45 crores. The similar run rate should be there in third and fourth quarter, or it could be a kind of INR 50 crore, INR 55 crore of [indiscernible] ?

Ajay Saraogi

Yeah, it will be above INR 50 crore because, see, we are not getting any incentives [indiscernible] is not there, in north we don't have because we are taking the input credit, so it is not available. So it is basically coming from a few grinding units. So it could be around INR [indiscernible].

Shravan Shah

Okay. On the white cement front, on a consolidated level for H1, we have seen a 4.9% volume growth. For full year, last time we said that we are looking at 8%-10% kind of a growth. That number is doable for this year?

Ajay Saraogi

See, we have to see what has happened because on a consolidated basis when we talk about in the white. Fujairah operations are affected. Yes, there is an increase in the India operations, but we will not be able to compensate the entire loss because we are not able. Whatever Fujairah was feeding into the Indian market, that we are able to feed from the India operations. But we are not able to meet the shortage for other countries.

Fujairah is not able to export any cement or clinker to any other part of the world except for the GCC nations. They are not able to send material anywhere else. So it will be difficult to make out that shortage. But otherwise, it is more or less, so there could be some shortfall in that numbers.

Shravan Shah

Okay. And sir, given that the, let's say, the clinker utilizations are as Prashant sir has mentioned, the 95% utilization. Obviously for second half, we definitely are given the 20% grey volume growth is there. We should be able to reach close to a kind of a 24 million ton…

Ajay Saraogi

No, one minute. Our guidance is 23 million plus. I am not committing anything on 24 million.

Shravan Shah

Yeah, I understand, sir… But the investors are making that number, sir. Definitely, you always are …

Ajay Saraogi

Try to aspire to that number. But there are many other factors. 20% growth with the base, the first quarter base, and we have to see other things. I am not too sure that, though we will definitely try to see whatever best can be done. But we are not committing anything on, say, on a 24 million ton volume number.

Operator

Thank you, Shravan. I request you to come back for a follow-up question. I request to all the participants, please limit yourself to 2 questions per participant, and rejoin for a follow-up. Next question is from the line of Pinakin Parekh from HSBC. Please go ahead.

Pinakin Parekh

Thank you very much sir, my first question is, can you give us a sense of where do you see the absolute net debt peaking out? You have mentioned on an EBITDA per ton ratio level, but where can we see this net debt number peaking?

Ajay Saraogi

The net debt today is about INR 4,571 crores. It could peak up to closer to INR 6,000 crores.

Pinakin Parekh

Sure, sir. This is based on the 40 million ton plan or the 50 million ton plan?

Ajay Saraogi

Well, I think INR 6,000 crores is on a 50 million ton. That is where it should peak out net debt.

Pinakin Parekh

Okay. Got it. Second question, sir, on cement pricing is that you mentioned that INR 20 per bag between mid-September and mid-October. Given what you are seeing on the ground, do you think the industry would try to push for further price hikes after Diwali, or the current price hikes are enough to cover all the cost pressures that we are seeing on the ground?

Ajay Saraogi

No, actually, there is still a requirement of INR 10-INR 15 in the price to meet out all the cost increase. Because it is not only the fuel. The packing cost continues to be very high, the packing annual cost. And packing cost, which started falling, has again increased. And the geopolitical situation continues to be there. Fortunately, in between this, our big [bet] on rupee devaluation, the rupee has been quite strong over the last few days, say, over the last 15-20 days. So we do not see --but in case there is, again, if the rupee gets weaker, that will also have some impact. So I think another INR 10-INR 15 as minimum is required. That gap would still be there.

Pinakin Parekh

Got it. And you see this happening around after Diwali, or do you think it is on the ground, it is difficult to absorb the price increases?

Ajay Saraogi

You see, I think it can happen after Diwali because now, Diwali, people will start moving in the next 10, seven, eight days or so. The construction activity will get slowed down because the laborers start moving out. And then they will only join back around the 20th, not before that.

Pinakin Parekh

Got it. Thank you very much, sir.

Operator

Thank you. Participants, please limit to two questions per participant, and rejoin for a follow-up. Next question is from the line of Parvez Qazi from Nuvama Wealth Management. Please go ahead.

Parvez Qazi

Hi, good afternoon, sir, and congratulations on the great set of numbers. Just needed two data points. What was our CC ratio this quarter, and what was our fuel mix? Thank you.

Ajay Saraogi

CC ratio was 1.5, and fuel mix was 55% Indian coal, 13% alternate fuels, and balance is pet coke.

Parvez Qazi

Sure, sir. Thanks and all the best.

Operator

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Ritesh Shah from Investec Capital. Please go ahead.

Ritesh Shah

Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, can you please update us on the status of Mahan and West of Shahdol coal blocks? What is the status by when it can actually help us on the cost curve?

Ajay Saraogi

So, see the work part -- we have already started work on the Mahan coal block at the site. We have got all the approvals and the work has started at the site. We see that sometime in first quarter or first half of FY '29, at this [time], this is what we are targeting. In the first half of FY '29 to make this Mahan operative. We are still working out on the second mine. We are first concentrating on the first Mahan, which is a larger block, and then concentrate on this. Maybe we will be in a position, say, another six to eight months on a definite schedule for the Shahdol coal block.

Ritesh Shah

And sir, would it be possible for you to indicate how much will be the landed cost, say FY '29, a little far, but just to understand from a cost-saving standpoint? I understand it's a 1.2 million ton mine. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Ajay Saraogi

Yeah. So we expect the whole cost to be within INR 1.25 paisa.

Ritesh Shah

Okay. This is encouraging. Thank you so much. Sir, my second question is on fuel mix. You did indicate AFR pet coke and local coal on a percentage basis. But is there any further scope to optimize this? Or if I have to put it the other way around, is there any challenge in procuring local coal wherein we'll be forced to go more for pet coke or the other way around?

Ajay Saraogi

No. So see what happens. It's a location thing. Our central plant will be more based out of the local fuel. So there, it is not economical. The imported fuel will not be economical. It is only used as a blender, some high calorific as a blender, which is, say, limited up to 10%, not more than that. When we come to north and the south plants, there Indian coal, one, it is very difficult to get Indian coal of that volume. We don't have any linkage for these plants. So from the open market to get a consistent quality and the volume required for those operations is not feasible. So there, the imported US coal or pet coke will always be there, and we will have to primarily use that fuel in the north and the south plants.

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Participants, please limit to 1 question per participant and rejoin for a follow-up. Next question is from the line of Simran Kumari from Narnolia Financial Services. Please go ahead.

Unknown Analyst

Hello, sir. Congratulations on the good results.

Operator

Simran, you are not audible. Can you speak through the handset, please?

Unknown Analyst

Yeah, I am using handset. Am I audible now?

Operator

Simran, your voice is not coming clear.

Ajay Saraogi

If you could be louder.

Unknown Analyst

Am I audible now?

Operator

Yes, go ahead.

Unknown Analyst

Hello. Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Most of my question has been answered. Just wanted to get some sense on the power and fuel cost, going forward. The way I am seeing the power and fuel cost in this quarter, how it will be going into the like for Q3 and [Q4]?

Ajay Saraogi

As I said earlier, we should see power and fuel cost increasing by between INR 80 to INR 100 in each of the quarters.

Unknown Analyst

Okay. Thank you so much. That was my question.

Operator

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Harsh Mittal from Emkay Global. Please go ahead.

Harsh Mittal

Yes. Good evening -- good afternoon, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. My question is on the white cement realization per ton. We have seen some sharp jump sequentially this quarter as well, around 7.5%, while you did allude it last quarter that it was due to the restricted material movement from the Fujairah. Do you see further improvements here in ensuing quarters, or how should we look at it, sir?

Ajay Saraogi

Whatever increase you see year on year is because, yes, as a part of the cost increase in the white business, the white cement prices have also been increased. But it was increased, in fact, in the first quarter itself. But the possibility of further increase is quite challenging. We are not expecting any further increase in the white cement, because again, there is some barrier in cost prices beyond a particular price. The customers are not ready. It is quite challenging. Yes, though, we are trying to work out if there is any, whatever, how we are able to pass on the cost increase, further cost increase. But as of now, it is a bit challenging.

Harsh Mittal

Understood, sir. Sir, any guidance on the white cement volumes, given that we have commissioned the new white cement plant this year for this FY '27?

Ajay Saraogi

The putty plant is actually which we have commissioned. Whatever number we have as a guided number, we continue with that number. This is to meet out the peak demand. We are already operating at about 90% capacity utilization. If we had not commissioned that plant, then we will not be able to grow going forward.

Operator

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Siddharth Mehrotra from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead.

Siddharth Mehrotra

Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, just wanted to confirm, we have obtained the EC and CTE approvals for the Bhatinda project in Punjab. Is that understanding correct?

Ajay Saraogi

Yeah. It is under the approval. We are just expecting the formal letters very shortly.

Siddharth Mehrotra

Okay. So we've not received them, but we expect them shortly. Is that the correct understanding?

Ajay Saraogi

Yeah. Within this month it should be there.

Siddharth Mehrotra

Understood. So slightly delayed versus our previous expectation, if my understanding is correct, right?

Ajay Saraogi

Yeah. We are hopeful that, immediately upon receipt, we will start the work at the site.

Siddharth Mehrotra

Got it, sir. Just one small follow-up question, if I may. Sir, we are seeing in the standalone white cement volumes, the growth is 13%, 14% odd y-o-y. Could you just maybe explain why such a sharp recovery and maybe is it expected to continue?

Ajay Saraogi

Which is serviced from India. Earlier, the volumes were serviced from Fujairah last year, and now this is serviced from India. That is the reason the growth is there. Yes. Also, with the growth in market, so both for white cement and putty, there is a growth in the market, and we have sold more material.

Siddharth Mehrotra

Okay. That is very clear. So sir, India capacity remains as is, which is roughly 2.6, 2.7 MTPA, like white and putty, right?

Ajay Saraogi

India capacity for white and putty is 3.05. 0.6 is the white cement capacity in UAE. So total capacity of white cement putty is 3.65.

Operator

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Jinesh Kothari from Equirus Securities. Please go ahead.

Unknown Analyst

Yeah. Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. I just wanted to know about the cost pressures you mentioned about INR 80-90 on the fuel part. Are we expecting any cost inflation on the packaging back front? I also wanted to know if we have any one-off cost regarding maintenance that were recurring [indiscernible].

Ajay Saraogi

No, I don't think the packaging cost has already peaked out. I think we should not see any further increase in the packaging costs. But definitely on all these costs, if there is impact of if rupee depreciates, then there could be some cost impact because it has a direct impact on the [indiscernible] cost.

Unknown Analyst

Okay, sir. The one-off maintenance, if you have any undertaken any maintenance cost during the quarter specifically.

Ajay Saraogi

No, it is a routine with the [called] planned maintenance. There is nothing specific.

Unknown Analyst

Sir, just last question on, sir, what will be the utilization that we would have achieved on our Bihar plant since we have commissioned 8 months now into the period. So what would be the utilization approximately now?

Ajay Saraogi

About 50% is there. Closer to 50%.

Unknown Analyst

Sure, sir. Perfect. Thank you, sir.

Operator

Thank you. Next question is from the line of Girija Ray from Nirmal Bang. Please go ahead.

Unknown Analyst

Hi. Thanks for taking my questions. Coming back to the white cement business.

Operator

Girija, your voice is coming muffled. Can you speak through the handset, please?

Unknown Analyst

Is this fine now? Clear?

Operator

Slightly better.

Unknown Analyst

Am I audible? Yeah. Coming back to Harsh Mittal question. He was asking about white cement business. Again, see, the thing is that realization I can see sequentially first quarter and second quarter it has improved and as you mentioned due to the higher cost and up to certain level we can take a price hike. Just for assuming, let's say fourth quarter is always a volume driven quarter for the grey cement and first quarter is a price driven quarter what we believe. Similarly, can someone assume any quarter where we see a volume sprout in white cement or realization difference likewise?

Ajay Saraogi

No, I would not say the white cement, the fluctuation is not so much there on quarter-on-quarter. Definitely this month is a good month for white cement, is the pre-festival season, the peak. We should see the peak volumes in this month. But again, then we have a lean month, which is November because of festivity. So the volumes will again suddenly dip. And then it is so based on quarter-on-quarter, there will not be any big variation. Yes, there will be some growth, but it is not anything which is quite significant.

Unknown Analyst

Thank you, sir. And all the best.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraint, we will take the last two questions. Next question is from the line of Navin Sahadeo from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.

Navin Sahadeo

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for the follow-up. My only question was how do we apportion the advertisement cost between the putty white cement business and the paints business? Because I think previous quarter we were saying it is break even. Paint business has break even. This quarter is a slight loss, but we continue to expect that this year it will be break even.

Also, very encouraging to know that future CapEx will be from internal accruals of this particular segment only. So wanted to understand at a very steady state, what is the margin that we are expecting this business to carry and the advertisement cost, how is that apportioned? Thanks.

Ajay Saraogi

So, one, as far as the margins are concerned, we are working out on the improvement of margins and the paint margins. We see what are the margins of the competition, which is around 40% plus. We are presently lower. So over a period of time, we continue to work and reach the numbers of around 35%-38%.

So this is the number which we are presently targeting. As far as the portion of advertisement, it is common because it is a Maxx brand where the activities are both for paint, putty, and partially for white. So it is a common brand which we advertise. And more or less, we have worked out more as an allocation, try to be more specific so that each business gets its due apportionment of the cost. It is not based on any top line or anything, but we are trying to allocate the cost so that for the paint gets a fair, whatever is the paint advertisement cost, is charged to the paint business.

Operator

Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraint, we will take that as our last question. I will now hand the conference over to Mr. Vaibhav Agarwal for closing comments.

Vaibhav Agarwal

Yeah, thank you. On behalf of PhillipCapital India Private Limited, we would like to thank the management of J.K. Cement for the call, and also many thanks to everyone joining the call. Thank you very much, sir. We now conclude the call. Thank you.

Ajay Saraogi

Thank you everyone... for joining the call.

Operator

Thank you very much. On behalf of PhillipCapital India Private Limited that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.

Nirav, Moderator/Operator, PhillipCapital India Private Limited: Thank you very much. On behalf of PhillipCapital India Private Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.