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Federated Hermes (FHI) 2026 年第三季財報電話會議:MDT 資金流入推升股票資產管理規模

2026年10月30日 20:04
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Federated Hermes 於 2026 年第三季股票資產規模達創紀錄的 1,105 億美元,固定收益為 990 億美元,貨幣市場資產則因季節性因素減少 4% 至 6,540 億美元。MDT 策略表現強勁,帶動整體總銷售額與淨銷售額增長。公司營運費用季減 4%,並維持高於 30% 的營業利益率。展望第四季,管理層預期股票與私募市場的新增資金將超過預期的固定收益贖回,並持續推進數位資產與代幣化流動性產品的基礎設施建設。

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重點摘要

  • Federated Hermes 於 2026 年第三季結束時,股票資產管理規模 (AUM) 達到創紀錄的 1,105 億美元。19 億美元的正向淨流入被較低的市場估值部分抵銷。
  • MDT 策略創造了創紀錄的 60 億美元總銷售額與 32 億美元淨銷售額。在過去三年中,九種 MDT 基金策略中有七種在晨星 (Morningstar) 同類別中排名前 25%。
  • 固定收益資產在該季結束時為 990 億美元。淨銷售額總計 7 億美元,但市值下降使資產減少了 18 億美元。
  • 貨幣市場總資產較第二季減少 270 億美元,或 4%。管理層將此減少歸因於 9 月的企業稅款支付、聯準會 9 月中旬的利率舉措以及大型州資金池的季節性流動性變化。
  • 第三季營收季增 460 萬美元,即 1%;營運費用則減少 1,590 萬美元,即 4%,主因第二季包含了 1,120 萬美元的 FCP 收購成本。
  • Federated Hermes 進入第四季時,擁有約 65 億美元已獲勝但尚未撥款的機構淨委託。管理層預期股票新增資金(主要為 MDT)與私募市場流入將超過預期的固定收益贖回。

核心財務數據

指標2026 年第三季結果或變動關鍵細節
總營收較第二季增加 460 萬美元,或 1%股票資產成長增加了 800 萬美元,天數多出一天的效應增加了 530 萬美元;平均貨幣市場資產減少使營收減少了 400 萬美元
營運費用較第二季減少 1,590 萬美元,或 4%第二季包含約 1,120 萬美元的 FCP 收購成本;薪酬費用減少約 330 萬美元
附帶權益與績效費72.6 萬美元低於第二季的 140 萬美元;其中約 42.8 萬美元被薪酬費用抵銷
有效稅率27.1%管理層預估 2026 全年稅率介於 25% 至 28%
現金及投資5.8 億美元不含非控制權益部分的金額為 4.83 億美元
股票資產管理規模 (AUM)1,105 億美元創季末新高紀錄;淨流入為 19 億美元
固定收益資產管理規模 (AUM)990 億美元7 億美元的淨銷售額被 18 億美元的市值下降所抵銷
另類/私募市場資產管理規模 (AUM)217 億美元第三季略有增加
貨幣市場總資產較第二季減少 270 億美元,或 4%基金資產減少 136 億美元;全權委託帳戶減少約 134 億美元

業務與營運績效

股票與 MDT

MDT 為主要的成長驅動因素。其股票與市場中立策略錄得 60 億美元總銷售額與 32 億美元淨銷售額。機構全權委託帳戶(含副顧問委託)在第三季新增 15 億美元淨銷售額,幾乎全部來自 MDT 策略。

Federated Hermes 報告其 33 種股票基金與 SMA 策略實現淨銷售。根據晨星過去三年的數據,其 56% 的股票基金表現優於同業,33% 排名同類別前 25%。自第四季初至 10 月 23 日,股票基金與 SMA 的合計淨銷售額達到 2.42 億美元。

管理層表示,機構需求廣泛分散於全市值核心、大型價值股、小型成長股、大型核心股與大型成長股策略。MDT ETF 與集合投資信託產品亦錄得淨流入。

固定收益

22 檔固定收益基金與 SMA 在第三季實現淨銷售。主要產品包括 Sterling Cash Plus Fund、超短期債券基金、Total Return Bond ETF、Conservative Microshort Fund 以及 C.W. Henderson 短期市政債 SMA。

機構固定收益全權委託帳戶創造了 9.24 億美元的淨銷售額,受一家具有經常性大幅進出資金的大型公共機構所推動。過去三年中,49% 的固定收益基金表現優於同業,21% 排名晨星同類別前 25%。

截至 10 月 23 日,固定收益基金與 SMA 合計錄得 20 億美元的淨贖回。這包括一位選擇在數十億美元委託中承擔更多風險的 Total Return Bond 策略客戶贖回的 17 億美元。

貨幣市場

貨幣市場基金資產季減 3%,而全權委託帳戶資產則下降 8%。公司估計的貨幣市場共同基金市占率(包含副顧問基金)從第二季的 6.7% 降至約 6.6%。

管理層表示,Federated Hermes 堅持維持按面額計算的每日流動性,而非超出其舒適區延長到期日以獲取額外收益。公司表示,截至 10 月 28 日,其貨幣市場基金資產隨後增加了 37 億美元。

在法說會召開前幾天,管理總資產約為 8,900 億美元,其中包括 6,540 億美元的貨幣市場資產、1,120 億美元的股票資產、980 億美元的固定收益資產、230 億美元的另類/私募市場資產,以及 30 億美元的多重資產策略。貨幣市場共同基金資產為 4,890 億美元,10 月份平均金額亦相同。

私募市場與數位資產

MDT 市場中立基金與 ETF 合計創造了 1.8 億美元的淨銷售額。Federated Hermes 還在推廣其第六檔全球私募股權共同投資基金,以及一檔專注於優先貸款與整體貸款 (whole loans) 的新歐洲房地產債務基金。

在數位資產方面,該公司正與 Prometheum 合作,透過其向 SEC 註冊、具 FINRA 會員資格的經紀交易商基礎設施發行代幣化證券。其他計畫涉及 BNY、高盛 (Goldman)、Archax 和 Conduit Digital Holdings。管理層強調,當前的重點是代幣化流動性產品,這些努力旨在為未來需求準備基礎設施,而非回應目前強勁的客戶需求。

管理層指引

  • Federated Hermes 預估其 2026 全年有效稅率將介於 25% 至 28% 之間。
  • 管理層預計機構管道中的股票委託將在未來兩季注入資金。公司進入第四季時擁有約 65 億美元尚未撥款的機構淨獲利委託。
  • 預期的管道包括約 70 億美元的 MDT 股票新增資金,以及涵蓋直接貸款、私募股權與貿易融資在內的約 12 億美元私募市場淨流入。預期的固定收益淨贖回額約為 17 億美元。
  • 財務長預期隨業務成長,第四季薪酬費用將上升。分銷費用將主要取決於貨幣市場資產規模,而系統與通訊支出預計將維持高位。
  • 管理層強調營業利益率高於 30%,並表達了維持該水準的目標,但未提供 2027 年的費用預測。

風險與關注焦點

  • 較低的市場估值抵銷了股票與固定收益在第三季的正向淨銷售額。
  • 當競爭對手延長到期日以獲得額外收益時,Federated Hermes 在貨幣市場基金中保守的流動性定位可能會創造暫時性的績效與資金流差距。
  • 大型機構委託可能會產生可觀的資金流入或贖回,例如 Total Return Bond 的 17 億美元贖回以及來自某大型公共機構的經常性資金變動所示。
  • 機構全權委託帳戶與副顧問委託的費率低於傳統的《1940 年投資公司法》(40 Act) 共同基金。管理層承認管道資金到位可能會稀釋綜合費率。
  • 據管理層表示,代幣化產品仍屬於基礎設施投資,而非實質由需求帶動的成長驅動力。

分析師問答亮點

貨幣市場資金流差距:管理層將第三季相較於部分競爭對手較弱的資金流,部分歸因於其拒絕為了額外收益而將到期日延長至超出內部流動性與信用限制。管理層表示,資金流在 10 月已開始趨於正常。

SMA 動能:公司將強勁的 SMA 銷售歸因於 MDT 的長期績效、廣泛的分銷以及多元化的機構管道,而非單一產品或通路舉措。

考量稅務策略:管理層證實 Federated Hermes 正與其他公司合作開發考量稅務之結構,未來可能加入現有委託中。管理層亦強調 MDT 市場中立策略作為具有持續淨流入的現有多空產品。

固定收益需求:管理層預期,隨著投資人在殖利率曲線上小幅移動,超短期 (Ultrashort) 和微短期 (Microshort) 策略等較短存續期的產品將主導需求。管理層亦指出,儘管隨後發生大規模贖回,但 Total Return Bond Fund 在第三季仍是其總銷售額最高的固定收益產品。

法說會逐字稿全文


完整財報電話會議逐字稿

管理層陳述

Operator

Greetings, and welcome to the Federated Hermes Third Quarter 2026 Analyst Call and Webcast.

[Operator Instructions] And please note, this conference is being recorded. I will now turn the conference over to your host, Mr. Ray Hanley, President, Federated Investors Management Company. Sir, the floor is yours.

Raymond Hanley

Thank you, and welcome to our call. Leading today's call will be Chris Donahue, CEO and President of Federated Hermes; and Tom Donahue, Chief Financial Officer. Joining us for the Q&A are Saker Nusseibeh, who is the CEO of Federated Hermes Limited; and Debbie Cunningham, the Chief Investment Officer for Money Markets.

During today's call, we may make forward-looking statements, and we want to note that Federated Hermes' actual results may be materially different than the results implied by such statements. Please review the risk disclosures in our SEC filings. No assurance can be given as to future results, and Federated Hermes assumes no duty to update any of these forward-looking statements.

Chris?

John Donahue

Thanks, Ray. Good morning, all. I will review Federated Hermes' business performance. Tom will comment on our financial results. We ended the third quarter with record equity assets under management of $110.5 billion, up $949 million from Q2 as positive net inflows of $1.9 billion were partially offset by lower market valuations. Equity sales results were led by MDT fundamental quant strategies. MDT equity and market-neutral strategies had a record $6 billion in gross sales and $3.2 billion in net sales in the third quarter.

Now looking at fund performance rankings at the end of Q3, 7 of 9 MDT fund strategies were in the top performance quartile of their Morningstar categories for the trailing 3 years. We had net sales in 33 equity fund and SMA strategies during Q3, including a variety of MDT offerings. Institutional separate accounts, including sub-advisory mandates, added $1.5 billion in Q3 net sales, nearly all in MDT strategies.

Now looking at our equity fund performance at the end of the third quarter and using Morningstar data once again for the trailing 3 years, 56% of our equity funds were beating peers and 33% were in the top quartile of their category. Now for the fourth quarter through October 23, combined equity funds and SMAs had net sales of $242 million.

Now turning to fixed income. Assets ended Q3 at $99 billion. Net positive sales of $700 million were offset by a decrease of $1.8 billion due to lower market values. We had 22 fixed income funds and SMAs with net sales in the third quarter, led by the Sterling Cash Plus Fund, our Ultrashort Bond Funds, Total Return Bond ETF, Conservative Microshort Fund and the C.W. Henderson Short-Term Muni SMA. Fixed income institutional separate accounts had Q3 net sales of $924 million, driven by a large public entity that has regular sizable inflows and outflows. Regarding performance at the end of the third quarter and using Morningstar data for the trailing 3 years, 49% of our fixed income funds were beating peers and 21% were in the top quartile of their category.

For Q4 through October 23, combined fixed income funds and SMAs had net redemptions of $2 billion, which includes $1.7 billion in redemptions from a client in the total return bond strategy, who went in the direction of taking additional risk for this part of their multibillion-dollar mandate. On September 30, this fund, Total Return Bond Fund, ranked in the top third of its category for the trailing 10 years, 66th percentile for 3 years, top 28% for 1 year and top 18% for the trailing 3 months.

Now in the alternative/private markets category, assets were up slightly, reaching $21.7 billion. The MDT Market Neutral Fund and ETF combined for $180 million net sales. We are in the market with the global private equity co-invest fund, the sixth vintage of our PEC series and the European Real Estate Debt Fund, a new pooled European debt fund that will invest in senior and whole loans. Across our long-term investment platform, we began the fourth quarter with about $6.5 billion in net institutional wins yet to fund into both funds and separate accounts. Equity strategies are expected to have net sales of about $7 billion in MDT additions. Approximately $1.2 billion on a net basis is expected to come into private markets, including direct lending, private equity and trade finance. Fixed income is expected to have net redemptions of about $1.7 billion, which includes the aforementioned redemption in the multi-sector field.

Moving on to money markets. Total money market assets decreased by $27 billion or 4% from the second quarter as funds decreased by $13.6 billion or 3% and separate accounts decreased by about $13.4 billion or 8%. Money market fund assets were impacted by the mid-September increase in interest rates by the Fed and by September's corporate tax payments. Money market separate account assets were impacted by the liquidity levels of large state pools that we manage and typically peak with tax collections at the end of the year through April before decreasing in Q2 and Q3. Our estimate of money market mutual fund market share, including sub-advised funds, was about 6.6% at the end of Q3, down from 6.7% at the end of Q2.

Turning to digital assets. We continue active collaboration with financial institutions and technology providers to explore digital distribution. Our focus is liquidity, where our efforts are designed to enhance flexibility and accessibility while preserving the core structure and utility of money market funds. During the third quarter, our arrangement with Prometheum Inc. was announced. We are working with Prometheum, a market infrastructure provider for crypto assets, to expand the reach of tokenized securities through their SEC-registered, FINRA-member broker-dealer market infrastructure. Prometheum will make our tokenized products available to broker-dealers and RIAs through its correspondent clearing platform.

This follows the launch of our Money Market Management Digital Treasury Fund, which is expected to support both traditional and on-chain distribution. We have also selectively engaged with regulated digital asset intermediaries, including participation in the BNY, Goldman domestic initiative involving mirrored tokenization. Also the Archax initiative to offer tokenized access to a UCITS money fund in the U.K., our arrangement with Conduit Digital Holdings to support the launch of Conduit's tokenized money market fund in the APAC region with the Conduit fund investing in one of our offshore money market funds. We are engaged in digital asset development discussions with other intermediaries as well.

Now looking at recent asset totals that was a few days ago, managed assets were approximately $890 billion, including $654 billion in money markets, $112 billion in equities, $98 billion in fixed income, $23 billion in alternative/private markets and $3 billion in multi-asset. Money market mutual fund assets were $489 billion. Money market fund assets have ranged from $485 to $493 billion during October with average asset levels of $489 billion.

Tom?

Thomas Donahue

Thanks, Chris. For Q3 compared to the prior quarter, total revenue increased $4.6 million or 1%. Equity asset growth added $8 million of revenues and an additional day added $5.3 million of revenues. These increases were partially offset by lower Q3 money market average assets resulting in $4 million of lower revenues. In addition, Q2 included a $2.9 million gain on the sale of a renewable energy property by Rivington, and the U.K. real estate business had a $2 million real estate development fee for a project that did not advance into construction.

Total Q3 carried interest and performance fees were $726,000 compared to $1.4 million in the prior quarter. Approximately $428,000 of the Q3 fees were offset by compensation expense. Q3 operating expenses decreased by $15.9 million or 4% from the prior quarter due mainly to Q2 included approximately $11.2 million in transaction costs from the FCP acquisition in certain line items, also approximately $3.3 million of lower compensation and related expense, lower advertising and promotional activity, intangible asset expense decreased $1.5 million, primarily due to most of the intangible assets from the Hermes acquisition being fully amortized.

These expense decreases were partially offset by a withholding tax-related expense of $1.9 million recorded in the other expense line item. $1.7 million expense for an adjustment to the FCP contingent payment, also recorded in the other expense line item. The Q3 effective tax rate was 27.1%. We estimate the full year tax rate to be in the 25% to 28% range for 2026. At the end of Q3, cash and investments were $580 million. Cash and investments, excluding the portion attributable to noncontrolling interest, were $483 million.

Oli, we would like to open the call up for questions now.

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Our first question is coming from Patrick Davitt with Autonomous Research.

分析師問答

Patrick Davitt

On the money fund flows, I understand that 3Q is always a seasonally weaker fund flow quarter for you, but there was a pretty big gap with many of your largest competitors like BlackRock had big inflows, JPMorgan had big inflows, Invesco had big inflows. So I'd like to get a little bit more color on what you think explains that big gap with some of those big competitors? And to what extent you're seeing more pricing competition, people trying to compete more aggressively on fees?

John Donahue

Patrick, I'll go first, and then we'll have Debbie give you the report from the field. So overall, there's nothing new about people periodically doing things either with fees or with portfolio construction that cause intermediate short-term alterations in the flows. And that's what was going on in this past quarter. And if you look at it over the 50-year period that we've been involved in this, this is like a routine deal.

Debbie will give you more details.

Deborah Cunningham

Thanks, Chris. So Patrick, as you know, we manage our money funds with a bias to daily liquidity at par. And as part of that process, on a daily basis, we identify maturity restrictions for different security types that we use as well as for each of the approved issuers from our database that we use. And these restrictions, for the most part, are based on liquidity in the marketplace for those different security types for those different issuers as they go out the curve, in addition to our own internal credit rating, which ranges from 1 to 5 for the various issuers. And this process really involves all 3 members of our team. It's our portfolio managers that are looking at the structure of the fund. It's our analysts that are reviewing the issuers, and it's the traders that are looking at the security types and the selections on a daily basis.

And what we've determined is that historically, and in this particular case, we haven't been willing to extend our maturities beyond what I would traditionally call our comfort zone just because there's maybe some inordinate value and pursue that incremental yield out the curve. While in our minds, that would mean sacrificing some of that true daily liquidity. So it's basically a performance issue based on our choice of what I'll call the most liquid and highly rated sectors in the marketplace at this time.

The other thing that I would note is that the FOMC did move rates in September, and we, as well as others, were lagging the direct market, but that's across the board.

John Donahue

And to elaborate on that, so basically, we've caught up. And if you look at the recent stats for October 28, our money market fund assets are up $3.7 billion so far. And if you look at some of those other competitors you mentioned, some of their assets have walked out the door a little bit on them. So things are coming back to normal.

Patrick Davitt

Okay. Interesting. My follow-up is on expenses. Good control again in 3Q, which is nice to see. Could you maybe expand on how sustainable that is, what you're seeing heading into 4Q? And if you have any early view on how things are tracking in '27?

Thomas Donahue

I don't have a comment on '27, except you see our margin, which we are happy to see that go over 30%, maintaining that. And we've had a long-term goal of trying to get to the industry, but that's a longer process. I expect comp here in the fourth quarter to go up as we continue to grow. Distribution will follow primarily how the money market assets go. And we're still spending some more in the systems and communications line item. And the rest of them, I don't see big changes for next quarter. Another is lots of other things that go lots of different ways, which we don't really forecast that.

Operator

Our next question, sorry, is coming from Bill Katz with TD Cowen.

Robin Holby

This is Robin Holby on for Bill Katz. Could you speak to the success you saw in the SMA side of the business during the quarter in equity and fixed income? Is there anything specific you've done in those channels that's resonating with investors, and that might have driven the acceleration there?

John Donahue

That's a case of successfully repeating the sounding joy, standard blocking and tackling, making the calls and doing it for a long time. If you look at the long-term records, especially in the MDT field, you see consistent outperformance with their methodologies. And especially in the SMAs, it takes a little longer to make the sales, and it takes a little longer for redemption as well. So there was no magic. There was no silver bullet. It is just the power of a large distribution force with good long-term records that makes that happen.

Raymond Hanley

Rob, we commented on the performance, which is obviously outstanding, especially long term for the MDT strategies. And I would just emphasize that the success we've had in the institutional accounts is diversified within several of the SMA strategies. So we've had nice wins and good pipeline composition from a variety of those strategies, all-cap core, large-cap value, small-cap growth, large-cap core, large-cap growth. And so even in a quarter where with some equity market choppiness, which reflected itself in lower mutual fund flows, we were able to have strong inflows and strong pipeline by the strength of the institutional part of the business. So I would also note that our MDT ETF and CIT products also had net inflows.

Robin Holby

Great. That's helpful. And for a follow-up, we thought the Prometheum announcement was an interesting development. Aside from your current digital products, where do you see this going? Does this accelerate the tokenization of some of your other non-tokenized funds, for example, MDT?

John Donahue

I don't think it actually accelerates anything. It is just steady as we go in exploring this new field. As I've said to this audience before, the clients aren't beating down the doors to get these products. This is really getting the infrastructure ready for tomorrow. No different than a lot of other examples of where the infrastructure has to change for the future. And so we are excited about our deal with Prometheum, with BNY, with Archax and with Conduit, all of them, but it's hard to say, "Oh, this accelerates other things." We are focused, as I said in my remarks, on the liquidity portion, and I would say the other securities are behind that from our point of view, but we'll be ready for that as well.

Operator

Next question is coming from Michael Cho with JPMorgan.

Y. Cho

I just wanted to touch on the money funds discussion that we were having before. I mean you shared the AUM data, which is very helpful. But I was actually wondering how the relative revenue capture share might compare to some of the stats you provide on the AUM share? And if there's any bifurcation between the 2 that you might envision and any implications you might be able to help us frame there? I know you gave some discussion on the yields and performance, which makes sense, but also thinking about how the revenue share might compare relative to those statistics?

John Donahue

So you're touching on something that we don't have great information on, which is market share of revenue. And this has been one of Chris' crusades for a long time that to an owner operator, that's a very important statistic. But we can't get it. So we don't know. So we only do it by inference. But it's what's behind the curtain in not doing the things that others do to periodically jump their yield, jump a bunch of assets and then get back to regular.

And I'll let Ray comment on the specifics of our revenue picture as much as we know.

Raymond Hanley

Yes. And I would just echo that, Chris. We can't really do comparable revenue. I would stress that -- we have a lot of different pricing options across our money market franchise, reflecting our reach in the different portions of the intermediary channels, but a lot of the attention, of course, are in the most institutional products, which tend to have a lower fee rate. Among the products that are more geared to retail applications, which for us is not direct retail, it's still through intermediaries, but to the end client of the intermediary, we have tended to traditionally do better if you bifurcate the asset market share in that retail channel, which would be a positive influence to the blended fee rate overall for money markets.

Y. Cho

Great. If I could just switch gears to MDT. You've had quite a bit of success there, and you continue to make progress across a number of different channels. Just broadly from an industry perspective, there's been a lot made about tax-aware long-short products, the demand and the penetration that's having in terms of those products in market. I was wondering, given the success you've had with MDT, is tax-aware long-short is something you are or you may consider in the future just given the demand appetite there in the market today?

John Donahue

Yes. We are working with various firms on those types of products that basically get added to by the adviser or put on top of the existing mandates. And I can't get into the details on any of those. But yes, we're looking at that. But as soon as you say tax-aware, I think C.W. Henderson. I know that wasn't your question, but that's on the muni side and on managing the gains and the tax situation. And that was what I mentioned in my remarks is doing quite well. Overall, the message is that tax-aware is very important. But what we tell everybody is don't let taxes drive the truck. Underneath that, you've got to have good projects that are heading in the right direction for you and not just having taxes control the outcome.

Raymond Hanley

And I would just add to that, the MDT market-neutral strategy is a long-short strategy, and we've done well with that in terms of both performance and picking up consistent net inflows.

Operator

Our next question is coming from John Dunn with Evercore ISI.

John Dunn

Maybe just a little more on the institutional pipeline. Can you talk about any client concentrations? How quickly do you think mandates will fund and maybe the impact on the firm-wide fee rate? And then on the other end, any chunky redemptions you wanted to call out that you might see on the horizon?

John Donahue

Well, I'm going to let Ray give you those details. But first of all, we're going to stop and cheer on the number of $6.5 billion, one of the highest pipelines we've had.

Ray?

Raymond Hanley

Sure. When we're talking about funding, John, the equity portion we expect to fund over the next 2 quarters. And that, as I mentioned, coming from several directions. There are some large sub-advised mandates in there as well as some more regular institutional separate accounts. As you know, the fee rates on each of those kind of applications would be less than what we would realize in regular 40 Act mutual funds. We are, nonetheless, of course, happy to add as much of this as we can even if it would have the impact of diluting the blended fee rate.

John Dunn

Got it. And then maybe just on fixed income, given where we are with rates and where they're going, could you kind of frame where you expect demand for your suite to go from here? And which products do you think are going to catch a bid?

John Donahue

It's going to be on the short end is going to drive the truck, but we're never going to really be behind on Total Return Bond Fund, which was basically our highest gross selling product during the third quarter. So -- but the answer specifically your question will be on the short side. And we have a beautiful array of products with Ultrashort, Microshort, et cetera, for people who are wanting to step out the yield curve just a little bit.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, we have reached the end of our question-and-answer session. So I would like to turn the call back over to Mr. Hanley for closing remarks.

Raymond Hanley

Thank you. That concludes our call, and thank you for joining us today.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's call. You may disconnect your lines at this time, and we thank you for your participation.

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