M/I Homes (MHO) 2026年第三季度业绩电话会议：房贷买降利率使利润率承压

核心要点

• M/I Homes公布2026财年第三季度营收为10.8亿美元，同比下降5%，主要受房屋交付量和平均售价下降拖累。
• 税前利润下降38%至8700万美元，稀释后每股收益（EPS）从3.92美元降至2.56美元。EBITDA从1.57亿美元降至1.03亿美元。
• 扣除500万美元存货计提后的毛利率为21.3%，同比下降320个基点。管理层将毛利率收窄主要归因于房贷利率买断成本上升以及地块成本增加。
• 新签合同量下降2%至1861套。随着房贷利率上升，单月表现逐月走弱，从7月份的增长15%转为8月份的下降6%和9月份的下降16%。
• 资产负债表保持极高流动性，拥有6.2亿美元现金，9亿美元的循环贷款额度未发生借款，净负债资本比为2%。
• 管理层预计年终社区数量将比上年增长约5%，但在需求不确定的背景下，对新土地交易、开工、招聘和费用保持谨慎。

关键财务数据

业务与经营表现

M/I Homes第三季度取消合同样本率为12%。首次置业买家占销售额的50%，现房（库存房）占80%。公司最具性价比的产品线Smart系列贡献了季度约一半的销售额，改善型和二次购房买家占其余部分。

公司在本季度末拥有246个社区，同比增长6%。期内开业27个社区，售罄/关闭15个社区。北部地区合同量和交付量均增长1%，而南部地区合同量下降4%，交房量下降5%。

管理层指出，芝加哥、哥伦布、明尼阿波利斯、达拉斯和夏洛特是各区域分部利润的主要贡献者。佛罗里达州表现参差不齐：奥兰多表现相对稳健，萨拉索塔合同量有所增加，而坦帕则出现下滑。管理层表示，较新的麦尔兹堡和那不勒斯业务表现超出预期。

M/I Homes拥有及控制约4.9万块地块，相当于约五年的供应量。其中自有地块约2.34万块，相当于约2.5年的供应量；通过期权合同控制的地块约2.56万块。

期末库存包括3242套房屋，其中721套已竣工。管理层表示，为应对市场需求，开工量已适当调减，尽管社区数量有所增加，但已竣工的投机性现房库存仍低于上年同期水平。

房贷业务的客户转化率达到96%，高于之前的93%，管理层称这是公司历史最高水平。借款人平均信用分数为748分，平均首付比例超过16%，首套抵押贷款平均贷款价值比（LTV）为84%。

房贷及产权业务营收下降5%至3270万美元。公司发放贷款1835笔，同比下降1%；平均贷款金额从40.6万美元降至40.3万美元。

管理层业绩指引

管理层预计，到2026年底，M/I Homes的社区数量将比一年前增长约5%。

公司预计整体战略不会发生重大变化。公司计划对新土地交易保持更为审慎的选择，控制费用和招聘，并在特定市场调整产品结构。在首次置业买家曾占据极高比重的约二至四个市场中，向更多改善型住房方向的转型已在推进中。

管理层指出，季度末后房贷利率略有回落，但也警告称动荡且具挑战性的市场环境可能会持续。

风险与关注领域

房贷负担能力仍是核心压力所在。本季度，30年期固定利率房贷的平均基准利率上升了近100个基点，从7月1日的约6.75%升至9月30日的近7.75%。利率买断成本的上升直接拖累了毛利率。

管理层还提到了燃料价格处于高位、通胀担忧以及伊朗局势持续紧张等影响消费者信心和加剧经济不确定性的因素。

季度内需求大幅走弱，合同增速从7月份的转正降至9月份的双位数下滑。佛罗里达州和德克萨斯州面临的挑战普遍大于中西部和卡罗来纳地区，其中坦帕和萨拉索塔承受的压力尤为突出。

随着季度的推进，促销让利力度有所加大。房贷利率买断仍是最主要的让利手段，部分社区还采用了过户费用补贴和降价等措施。更多客户开始考虑可调利率房贷产品。

分析师问答亮点

• 2027战略：管理层暂无剧烈变更商业模式或大规模出售土地的计划。公司意在保障流动性，严审新交易，并选择性调整产品结构。
• 投机性现房库存：开工量已适度削减。投机性现房总库存保持在3000套略高水平，而已竣工的投机性现房库存约700套，尽管社区有所增加，但整体持平或有所下降。
• 佛罗里达定价：管理层表示，定价和促销决策是按社区逐个制定的，而非进行大范围的区域性调整。奥兰多以及较新的麦尔兹堡和那不勒斯业务表现相对较好，而坦帕依然较为困难。
• 劳动力供应：移民执法在某些市场引发了零星问题，但管理层并不认为劳动力是整体上的主要限制因素。公司表示，如果市场需求允许，每年可多建1000至1500套房屋。
• 销售及管理费用（SG&A）：费用增长5%主要反映了社区数量的同步增加，包括增配销售和建造人员，以及广告和促销支出的略微增加。
• 资本分配：M/I Homes在第三季度投入5000万美元用于股票回购，回购授权额度中还剩2亿美元。自2022年初以来，公司已回购了21%的流通股。

业绩电话会议完整文字记录

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完整财报电话会议逐字稿

管理层陈述

Operator

Good morning, and welcome to the M/I Homes, Inc. Third Quarter Earnings Conference Call. My name is Lacey, and I will be your conference operator today. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Phil Creek. Please go ahead.

Phillip Creek

Thank you for joining us today. With me is Bob Schottenstein, our CEO and President; and Derek Klutch, President of our mortgage company. First, to address regulation fair disclosure, we encourage you to ask any questions regarding issues that you consider material during this call because we are prohibited from discussing significant nonpublic items with you directly. .

And as to forward-looking statements, I want to remind everyone that the cautionary language about forward-looking statements contained in today's press release also outlines to any comments made during this call. Also be advised that the company undertakes no obligation to update any forward-looking statements made during this call. With that, I'll turn the call over to Bob.

Robert Schottenstein

Thanks, Phil. Good morning, and thank you for joining us today. Our third quarter results reflect the increasingly difficult market conditions impacting the overall economy, consumer behavior and obviously, the homebuilding industry. In the face of these conditions, we produced solid results, generating $87 million of pretax income equating to an 8% plus return. .

Conditions changed notably during the quarter. Perhaps the best evidence of explaining the intra-quarter volatility is the movement in the benchmark 10-year U.S. Treasury bond. July 1, a -- the 10-year treasury was at 4.5%. By August 1, had risen to 4.75% and then began to rise at a faster pace, particularly during September, and by September 30, it had reached 5.3%.

In similar fashion, the average par contract interest rate for a 30-year fixed rate mortgage increased by nearly 100 basis points during the quarter, going from roughly 6.75% a July 1 to close to 7.75% at September 30. And combination of these rising rates, along with elevated fuel prices, concerns with inflation and the continued conflict in Iran have clearly impacted consumer confidence and demand and have contributed to growing economic uncertainty.

As of today, mortgage rates have actually come down slightly, which is very good news but the current choppy and challenging conditions may continue for some time. Regardless, this is not the first time we've managed through challenging conditions. We've been in business for 50 years. And during times like this, execution matters more than ever and a strong balance sheet is absolutely essential.

I'm proud to share that on both of these counts, M/I Homes is very well positioned to navigate the current market conditions. During the quarter, our teams executed at a very high level. And as I will explain in more detail in a few moments. Our balance sheet is rock solid as strong as at any time in our 50-year history.

For the quarter, we sold 1,861 homes 2% less than a year ago. And for the first 9 months of 2026, we have sold 6,598 homes, which is 5% more than a year ago. We continue to use mortgage rate buydowns as our primary incentive to drive sales. With rates rising during the quarter, the cost of such buydowns has increased, thereby impacting our margins.

We have carefully managed the nature and extensive rate buy downs as we deal with rising rates. And I might add, while rate buydowns are clearly important at this time, well-located communities, quality product and thoughtful design are just as, if not more important.

And I talk about how much execution matters during times like this, the quality of our product the strength of our communities and the skills of our sales associates all make a meaningful difference in our results. In other words, nearly every builder is buying down rates but the builder results from one builder to another clearly differ, and the difference is often all about execution.

During the quarter, we closed 2,241 homes a 2% decrease compared to a year ago. Year-to-date, we have closed 6,361 homes, which is 4% less than a year ago. Our third quarter total revenue decreased by 5% to [ $1.08 billion ] , and pretax income decreased 38% to what I mentioned earlier, $87 million. Our gross margin, excluding inventory charges, was 21.3%, 320 basis points lower than a year ago, down primarily due to the higher cost of rate buy downs and higher lot cost versus a year ago.

Our mortgage company's capture rate for the quarter was 96%. One of the highest capture rates we've ever seen and certainly one of the highest capture rates in the history of the home building industry. We continue to see quality buyers in terms of creditworthiness with average credit scores of 748 and average down payments over 16%.

We -- our Smart Series line of homes, which as most of you know, our most affordable line of homes, and generally appeals to the first-time homebuyer continues to be an important contributor to our sales performance. Of note, -- during the quarter, our Smart Series sales comprised about half of our sales. The other half went to second time or move-up buyers.

We ended the quarter with 246 communities and estimate that at the end of this year, our community count will be about 5% higher than last year. With respect to some comments about our markets, our division income contributions in the quarter were led by Chicago, Columbus, Minneapolis, Dallas and Charlotte.

New contracts during the third quarter in our Northern region increased by 1%. New contracts in our Southern region decreased by 4%. Our deliveries in the Northern region increased by 1% compared to last year and represented 42% of our company-wide total.

In our Southern region, our closings decreased by 5% over last year and of course, represented the other 58% of deliveries. We have an excellent land position. I repeat, we have an excellent land position. Our owned and controlled lot position in the Southern region decreased by 12% compared to last year and increased by 13% versus last year in the northern region.

41% of our total owned and controlled lots are in the north, the other 59% in the Southern region. Company-wide, we own on our books approximately 23,400 lots which is roughly a 2.5-year supply. In addition, we control approximately 25,600 lots via option contracts resulting in a total of roughly 49,000 owned and controlled lots equating to about a 5-year supply.

In my earlier remarks, I spoke about how critically important the strong balance sheet is in times like this. And as I said, our balance sheet is rock solid and continues to be in excellent condition. We ended the third quarter with an all-time record $3.3 billion of equity equating to a book value per share of $130.

We had 0 borrowings under our $900 million unsecured revolving credit facility, and we ended the quarter with over $600 million in cash. This has resulted in a debt-to-capital ratio of 18% and a net debt-to-capital ratio of 2%, one of the lowest debt levels in the homebuilding industry.

Moreover, -- and looking at our balance sheet, it's important to recognize that we are one of the few builders that does virtually 0 land banking. There's no confusion about what's on our books and what isn't. And our balance sheet has essentially 0 goodwill on it. We're very proud of our financial condition.

In closing, though these are more challenging times, we remain quite confident in the long-term fundamentals of the homebuilding industry. With our strong land position, well-located geographic footprint, well-located communities, diverse product offering and strong balance sheet, M/I Homes, is well positioned to manage through this current cycle. And with that, I'll turn it over to Phil.

Phillip Creek

Thanks, Bob. Our new contracts were down 2% when compared to last year. They were up 15% in July, down 6% in August and down 16% in September and our cancellation rate for the quarter was 12%. 50% of our third quarter sales were to first-time buyers and 80% were inventory homes.

Our community count was 246 at the end of the third quarter up 6% versus a year ago. The breakdown by region is 103 in the northern region and 143 in the Southern region. During the quarter, we opened 27 new communities while closing 15, we currently estimate that our 2026 year-end community count will be about 5% higher than last year.

We delivered 2,241 homes in the third quarter and about 35% of our third quarter closings came from inventory homes that were both sold and delivered within the quarter, and this also compares to 35% in last year's third quarter. As of 9/30, we had 5,200 homes in the field versus 5,000 homes in the field a year ago and our construction cost and cycle time were flat in the third quarter compared to the second quarter.

Revenue decreased 5% in the quarter. This decline was due to fewer homes delivered and our average sales price declined also. Our gross margin was 20.9% for the quarter including $5 million of inventory charges. Exiting these charges, our gross margin was 21.3%. Our third quarter SG&A expenses were 13.1% of revenue compared to 11.9% a year ago and our third quarter expenses increased 5% versus a year ago.

Increased costs were primarily due to our increased community count. Interest income, net of interest expense for the quarter was $3.6 million our interest incurred was $9.2 million. Our pretax income was 8% for the quarter, and our return on equity was 9%.

During the quarter, we generated $103 million of EBITDA compared to $157 million in last year's third quarter. And our effective tax rate was 23% in the third quarter compared to 24% in last year's third quarter. Our earnings per diluted share for the quarter decreased to $2.56 per diluted share from $3.92 last year. and our book value is now a record $130 per share. With that, I'll turn it over to Derek Klutch to address our mortgage company results.

Derek Klutch

Thanks, Bill. Our mortgage and title operations achieved pretax income of $13.4 million compared to $16.6 million in 2025, 3rd quarter, down 19%. And Revenue decreased 5% from last year to $32.7 million due to lower margins on loans sold, a lower average loan amount and a slight decrease in the number of loans originated. .

The average loan to value on our first mortgages for the third quarter was 84%, consistent with 2025's third quarter. 63% of the loans closed in the quarter were conventional, and 37% FHA or VA compared to 55% and 45%, respectively, for 2025's third quarter.

Our average mortgage amount decreased to $403,000 in 2026, 3rd quarter compared to $406,000 last year. Loans originated decreased to 1,835 loans, which was down 1% from last year, while the volume of loans sold decreased by 5%. The Finally, as Bob mentioned, our mortgage operation captured 96% of our business in the third quarter. This was up from 93% last year. Now I'll turn the call back over to Phil.

Phillip Creek

Thanks, Derek. As far as the balance sheet, our financial position continues to be very strong. We ended the third quarter with no borrowings under our $900 million credit facility and had a cash balance of $620 million. We continue to have one of the lowest debt levels of the public homebuilders and are well positioned with our maturities.

For bank line matures in late 2030 and our public debt matures in 2028 and 2030. Our unsold land investment at 9/30/26 is $1.9 billion compared to $1.8 billion a year ago. And at 9/30, we had $853 million of raw land and land under development and $1.1 billion of finished unsold lots.

During the third quarter, we spent $135 million on land purchases and $155 million on land development for a total of $290 million. At 9/30, we own 23,000 lots and controlled 49,000 lots. At the end of the quarter, we had 721 completed inventory homes and 3,242 total inventory homes.

And of the total inventory, 1,338 are in the Northern region and 1,904 in the Southern region. Last year at 9/30, we had 776 completed inventory homes and 3,001 total inventory homes. We spent $50 million in the third quarter, repurchasing our stock and have $200 million remaining under our current board authorization. Since the start of 2022, we have repurchased 21% of our outstanding shares. This completes our presentation. We'll now open the call for any questions or comments.

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Your first question comes from the line of Alan Ratner with Zelman & Associates.

分析师问答

Alan Ratner

You guys have been probably 1 of the most nimble builders over the last decade or so in terms of making some modest adjustments to your business model and strategy based on market conditions. I'm thinking, obviously, the growth in the Smart Series and kind of adjusting the spec mix based on market conditions. We've been in a challenging market for a while now, but it sounds like things have kind of taken another leg down this quarter with not much certainty or outlook for improvement in the near term.

So I'm curious whether there's more recent leg down and the move higher in rates is causing you to maybe think through the strategy heading into '27 and just thinking through your model, whether it's the mix of your business at spec versus BTO or price point or just land strategy. I'm curious if you're kind of making any adjustments or beginning to think about making adjustments based on the current market reality?

Robert Schottenstein

That's a great question. The first thing I want to say is you can't know what you don't know, right? I mean, sorry for saying something so obvious. But at the beginning of this year, I don't know if too many people that predicted that we would see not only the kind of rate movement that we've seen, which has trended considerably up rather than flat or down. But I don't think anyone believed or even had in their crystal ball that there would be a war beginning at the end of the first quarter, and it has continued now for 6 months.

And all of the related economic impacts that it has had, which I think have impacted in a negative way consumer confidence. That's been well documented. You've written about it as articulately as anyone. Having said all that, in good time in and bad, I think that and I didn't always know this, but it couldn't be clearer to me today as it maybe it wasn't as clear 20 years ago but in good time and bad, there's no financial piece of paper that's more important than your balance sheet.

And when things are more challenging, the importance of the balance sheet becomes more and more and more important, not because you think that we're about to enter a tsunami or some 100-year flood or something, but because you got to be prepared to deal with unexpected things like we've sort of seen happen this year. I don't think the sky is falling. I don't believe that nobody knows for sure I still think that there's so many positive underlying fundamentals that support the long-term health and vitality of the homebuilding industry we're not going to start selling a bunch of land. We've got a great land position.

Are we going to be more careful about new deals? Yes, we are. Will we control enough land, both on and off of our books to be able to manage whatever come what may come. We're not going to make any material changes. Maybe in a few markets, we might adjust our product mix a little bit company-wide. I don't see us making a lot of material changes to that.

There's a bit of a lead time associated with that anyway. I think we have a great strategy. And I think that we've been doing the right things it's easy to say execution matters. We're not perfect. We don't do everything A plus. But we do a lot of things really, really well. The 96% capture rate in our mortgage operation is yet another, it's the highest in the industry. We didn't -- that's not dumb luck. A year ago, it was 93%, and that was the highest in the industry. Pay a lot of attention to sales training more than ever. There's more sales training going on in our company today than at any time in our 50-year history.

And that didn't just start when rates went up 100 basis points. That's been going on since the beginning of the year because you've got to keep getting better. And I love the way we think about land. We were one of the few builders that was never romanced into doing land banking and a lot of off-balance sheet stuff. Maybe we should have, I don't know, but I like that we control it.

And I like that we're not painting the premium for it. And I'm liking that our best deals aren't potentially cross collateralized with a land banker who may be looking to call a bad deal. My point is we have our hands firmly on the rudder. If we don't go in the right direction, it's our fault. But we were really intensely focused on what we can control and our customer service scores are the highest in company history, our home readiness scores, which has to do with the completeness of the home at the time of closing are the highest in company history.

This is all third-party tabulated, our Google review scores across all of our divisions are the highest in company history. So when you talk about execution and focusing on controllables there's a lot to really feel good about. But this is -- these are tough conditions.

July conditions were a whole lot better than September and August was a whole lot better than September, too. And -- but I don't see any reason for some radical change. Yes, we're going to watch new hiring. We're going to control expenses. We're going to do all the things that, I guess, most of our peers are going to be doing right now as well as we're dealing with all these uncertainties. But I don't think the sky is falling, and I couldn't be -- homebuilding is a cyclical business, listen to your first rodeo either.

You've seen the cycles, maybe we're due for a bit of one because things have been pretty good for quite some time. but I wouldn't want to be any other builder. I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. I love our geographic footprint. There's times when Florida is a lot better than the Midwest and there's times when Texas is the strongest these things come and go and go up and down.

But in balance, we've got a very dominant position in the Midwest, a tremendous position in the Carolinas. Florida is a little bit of a struggle now, particularly the West Coast, but remain extremely bullish long term on Florida, and Dallas and Houston remain 2 of our best operations out of our [ 17 ] -- so just trying to tell it like I see it.

Phillip Creek

And one other thing I would add, sure echo what Bob says about how much execution matters. Obviously, having a really, really strong clean balance sheet, having a lot of liquidity is really important. So we continue to always focus on that. We have kind of reduced starts a little bit due to market conditions.

You'll see that our spec levels a little over 3,000 in total. And our finished spec levels being in that 700 range. It's pretty much flat where it was a year ago, even though we do have 5% more stores. So we're not trying to force anything because demand is an issue -- but again, we'll just continue trying to block and tackle better than others.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Buck Horne with Raymond James. .

Buck Horne

I appreciate all that color. Very helpful. Yes, I wanted to follow up a little bit on wanted to follow up kind of on what you're seeing you mentioned the West Coast of Florida. It looks like at least in early October, you guys have made some more significant pricing adjustments on some QMI homes, particularly in Tampa and Sarasota, maybe follow up on kind of how Florida is trending in general for you? And how you think those pricing adjustments will take? And are you making any more significant either incentive adjustments or pricing adjustments in other regions in October?

Phillip Creek

Buck, as Bob said, Florida and Texas have been a little more challenging in general than the Midwest and the Carolinas have been we've had a very, very strong operation in Florida, especially for years. Orlando has actually held up pretty good for us. Tampa, Sarasota had been a little more challenging we obviously make adjustments on a community basis periodically as we need to, and we are excited about our -- still a little bit of a startup operation in Fort Myers and Naples.

But I wouldn't say we're doing anything significantly again as kind of a subdivision by subdivision situation. If you just look at our new contracts in the third quarter, actually, compared to the prior year, Sarasota was up. Tampa was down a little bit. So it's kind of a little bit of a mixed bag in Florida. But overall, it still continues to be challenged. But we still feel really good about our leadership teams and really good about our opportunity there.

Robert Schottenstein

The only thing I might add, Fort Myers, Naples, exceeding our expectations. We're off to a very good start there. And obviously, it's a relatively new division for us, but very optimistic about that. And I just want to underscore, we probably have one of the best teams in our company in Tampa, -- so whatever the market may come, I've got tremendous confidence that we'll figure it out.

Buck Horne

I appreciate that. Yes, and go raise, right? So 1 quick on labor availability. It seems like there's been a lot more discussions about whether it's immigration enforcement activity or just other complications with getting fruits out to job sites on time? Are you seeing any effects of labor availability or immigration enforcement so far here in the -- through the third quarter?

Phillip Creek

In certain markets, and it seems to kind of come and go. We have issues with ICE and those type of issues overall, we feel good about where we are. We do have a few more houses in the field today than we did a year ago do desire to grow. We talked about community count being up 5% at the end of this year from a land position we could be doing.

And I think also from a labor standpoint, we could be doing probably 1,000 or 1,500 more homes a year if the demand was there. That's the biggest issue we have right now. So I would not say that labor is a huge issue. From a cost standpoint, especially with all the gas increases in diesel and land development, those type of things. We feel pretty good about our construction cost and land development costs have continued to be pretty flat. So we continue to focus on all those blocking and tackling things, Buck, which we were making more progress, but we feel pretty good about what we're doing.

Buck Horne

Appreciate the color. It sounds like you're doing a great job under the circumstances. All right. Good luck, guys.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Jay McCanless with Citizens Bank. .

Jay McCanless

So on the SG&A, could you talk about how much -- were there any onetime items in there? Or is that just where the level is now with the higher community count?

Phillip Creek

Jay, as we said, our SG&A expenses were up about 5%, which is similar to community count. For every community, in general, you have a couple more salespeople you have construction people, et cetera. So in general, that community count increase does increase that. Are we spending a little more money on the advertising, promoting side, yes, we are.

But the biggest issue is just the impact of increased community count, which we've talked about, we should like to increase that community count 5% to 10% a year is kind of our goal. We've been able to do that the last couple of years and this year.

Jay McCanless

And then the next question I had, you guys gave a lot of useful commentary about shifting into more move-up product last quarter. I guess, could you talk about what -- the numbers were -- I think you gave the already, but maybe talk about what the numbers for move-up were this quarter? And kind of following on Alan's question, are you guys looking to pivot more to move up into '27 than what you did in '26?

Phillip Creek

You're talking about the move-up buyer categories commodities .

Jay McCanless

Yes. I mean... Sure. Last quarter's conference call, you guys talked about shifting into more move-up communities focusing more on the move-up buyer -- could you talk about what you're doing this quarter, but then also kind of following on Alan's question, are you looking for ways to maybe change or communities in '27 .

Robert Schottenstein

Not really what's in place in select markets -- and I'm not going to mention which ones because there's no reason to. But in select markets, there is a greater emphasis on more move up than now. That began probably 3 to 6 months ago, and that will continue. So nothing has really changed in the last couple of quarters. In many of our markets, we have a very good mix right now, and I don't see it changing much.

But clearly, in 2 or 3 or maybe 4 of our markets, we're shifting the mix a little bit more towards the move up. That's already underway. It's playing out as we speak. And that's it's not a change during the third quarter. That was something that we started actually earlier this year. And these were markets where over 75% of our business was first time -- we never really felt great about that even before the move up the game more in vogue. We always felt sometimes things just sort of end up a certain way, I never want too many eggs in 1 basket because we don't have to do that. We're not going to.

Jay McCanless

And then the last question I had, just could you talk about what the incentive levels were this quarter and how they're trending to start the fourth quarter levels.

Phillip Creek

Well, obviously, our margins have been going down. And as Bob said, we primarily use incentives and mortgage rate buy downs every community is a little different as far as -- especially with first-time buyers, they tend to meet more help also with closing costs. I think also 1 of the things in the marketplace right now, in general, is I think the first thing all buyers expect is a reduced competitive interest rate, and you are seeing in certain markets a little more price reduction -- so it's kind of hard to figure out all the different breakdown of incentives.

Incentives definitely did increase as we went through the quarter. But again, it's just a community-by-community standpoint. We're having customers go a little bit more toward ARM products now than they were before, but that's something that's just always changing that we just have to deal with, and we track that every day and work on it every day and every community.

Operator

There are no further questions. I would now like to turn it back to Phil Creek for closing remarks. .

Phillip Creek

Thank you very much for joining us. Look forward to talking to you next quarter.

Operator

This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect.